«Wladimir, Du bist der Gefangene deiner Propaganda»: Streitgespräch Köppel vs. Solowjow, von Tolstoj bis von der Leyen

00:00:06: What's the right manner to pronounce Weltwoche?

00:00:12: I hate to say you are absolutely right.

00:00:16: Okay,

00:00:18: okay... Well

00:00:20: that helps!

00:00:21: To start on a charming note here

00:00:24: Yeah yeah That is smart way dealing with devil.

00:00:28: No, no.

00:00:28: It's important...

00:00:29: So very good morning to you!

00:00:29: Have you

00:00:30: been already

00:00:31: punished cross-effects and almost murdered by those who are telling me nowadays?

00:00:36: You're Putin Tarshtaya And there is no way that you can deal with the German speaking public With all your ugly Russian friends.

00:00:48: I mean, you should know by now that if your raising the voice... ...I see this program as a kind of comedy which is not at all appropriate for the earnestness of topics we have to discuss.

00:01:01: But i have to disappoint you!

00:01:03: Even though you are praying every day they will lock me up and arrest in the morning some kind of clandestine troops you know by the european commission, by Ursula von der Leyen.

00:01:19: they will take me.

00:01:21: i have

00:01:22: to say

00:01:23: not yet but

00:01:25: what

00:01:26: I'm

00:01:29: trying to prove is that actually we played a bit.

00:01:33: So when I am raising voice and using some theatrics immediately there's an enormous amount of Little videos in TikTok, YouTube Instagram whatever.

00:01:48: If we are talking just sense calmly reasonably amount of viewers definitely low.

00:01:55: That proves unfortunately my point that emotional vehicle is important In order to get something into the brain Of modern listeners and views?

00:02:06: Unfortunately

00:02:07: Absolutely.

00:02:09: And you are right here, I mean provocation is important but as we all know the provocation only has good quality of thoughts behind it.

00:02:22: That's very true.

00:02:24: So where are we?

00:02:26: What are main questions this week?

00:02:30: Are we closer to peace or war Anywhere, where can we say that reason is finally came to this world?

00:02:43: I think...we are closer to peace.

00:02:46: And even though my friends also here in Switzerland say i'm the eternal hopeless optimist..I am always referring to a book, you might of course know very well which is War and Peace by Tolstoy.

00:03:02: And I read it rather late in my life... ...and was very impressed with the last chapter or the last book where he reflects upon the laws of history.

00:03:14: He says we should never overestimate leaders.

00:03:19: We should never think that Napoleon and all how these guys are called, but they're riding the tiger.

00:03:26: But the Tiger which means... All of people on this planet!

00:03:30: They actually are shaping their direction.

00:03:35: And I just have a feeling and conviction That in our world we are doomed to cooperate.

00:03:43: Of course there's big tensions or conflicts at the end The people in Russia.

00:03:50: I mean, you are also fed up with wars.

00:03:53: You had enough of them...you have enough catastrophes In the second...in this twentieth century.

00:03:59: The Chinese they don't want war.

00:04:02: The Europeans They're somehow lost in their disorientation..You have to understand Americans Of course there a bit overly idealistic But we need them too.

00:04:13: So i think that overall vectors Are heading towards peace and as see My last remark, when I was in Russia recently... ...I got a lot of very gloomy outlooks.

00:04:25: And that was a bit scared because the signs were all on escalation.

00:04:31: and then come back to Europe.

00:04:32: what do i see?

00:04:35: The necessity for diplomacy is returning.

00:04:38: they are trying to find an interlocutor your president saying well, Saint Schroeder or someone else!

00:04:47: These are optimistic signs.

00:04:51: Wow, man!

00:04:52: You're an optimist... Well okay let's get back to basics.

00:04:57: first of all The Babylon Tower That's it.

00:05:05: We've been divided the tower of Babylon The Tower of Babylon has been destroyed and All people in this world were sent a peace.

00:05:21: we have zero chances To be united.

00:05:26: Zero chances, unfortunately.

00:05:30: And that's why when I say in that come on everyone is willing to know and people are not sick and tired of war... ...and they're not sick or tired of peace.

00:05:41: it's like tight!

00:05:42: In the world history.

00:05:43: its'nt something.

00:05:45: you can actually influence It just there.

00:05:50: Unfortunately theres no other way than what has created for solving all their contradictions in politics but wars.

00:06:00: There can be different forms of those wars, they can be bloody , economic and ideological.

00:06:08: But unfortunately Kain killed Avil.

00:06:14: It's extremely sad that we are doomed by our nature to fight war all the time Either it was inside out soul or outside world.

00:06:29: When you're talking about diplomacy, what diplomacy?

00:06:33: Look at this G-Seven.

00:06:35: An enormous amount of ass leaking assholes and only one actually person with brains... ...with charisma!

00:06:44: With

00:06:45: power!!!

00:06:46: And that's Donald Trump.

00:06:49: who look the way he looks at all those guys.

00:06:53: There are nothing but a bunch of ass licking idiots Those six.

00:07:03: Yes, there are serious people like you know.

00:07:07: representative of India.

00:07:08: Yeah the right decent people Saudi Arabia.

00:07:13: look at those guys So called Europeans and stomach.

00:07:18: who are they?

00:07:19: whom do they represent?

00:07:22: They have zero right to speak To raise their voice saying that yeah You now we've been elected by with this forecasted many times.

00:07:33: The level of popularity in their own countries is nothing.

00:07:39: And they dare to say, hey you Russia!

00:07:42: You should do this or that and by the way we're gonna fight you!

00:07:47: Look military industrial complex of Europe.

00:07:49: now this working for Ukraine.

00:07:53: who's paying Ukraine Military?

00:07:56: Europe Who's ruling?

00:07:59: Who's governing Ukraine?

00:08:01: Zelensky command?

00:08:02: definitely not.

00:08:03: but all those motherfuckers All six of them, besides Trump.

00:08:09: Trump is in another league.

00:08:11: They're all on Zelensky payroll may I say and he cannot pay with his own money.

00:08:20: He pays with money...he bribes him With money that has stolen and keep stealing from the American and European taxpayers.

00:08:30: And no one ever tried to even check whatever happened with money.

00:08:38: No one ever.

00:08:40: Isn't it weird, especially for German-speaking people?

00:08:44: An accountable amount of money being given with any form of reporting.

00:08:52: Any form of checking and control?

00:08:56: that sounds extremely suspicious!

00:09:03: You remind me... ...of an encounter I had twenty two years ago in Washington DC.

00:09:15: I was sitting at a table with some of the leading neocons... ...of The United States Of America.

00:09:24: Bob Kagan, you know them all!

00:09:27: You've read their books etc.

00:09:30: and it wasn't that time when the united states had difficulty in there.

00:09:35: war against Iraq And It's interesting how they spoke about European Union is more or less same even with those expressions I'm not using, because it doesn't lead to anything if you start just insulting people especially in a time where there is real chance of escalation.

00:09:57: Where does that lead?

00:09:58: If we started insulting everybody but they did too and do know very well... That's

00:10:05: the exact definition!

00:10:07: I am Swiss patriot Defender of neutrality on the far independence and I'm also a critic Of The European Union, but when we listen to you.

00:10:15: Have the same feeling at back then in Washington You force me To defend which cannot be defended?

00:10:22: The european union i have to Be.

00:10:24: that is good lawyer of these guys.

00:10:27: you have

00:10:27: to defend european Union But he has to defend people or european.

00:10:33: yeah,

00:10:34: no You are the master communicator in Russian television, you have millions of viewers and... ...you have a great responsibility.

00:10:41: And I think these are just two cheap targets to take these European leaders.

00:10:47: Of course we can agree easily

00:10:49: that they make big mistakes But get me other targets!

00:10:55: Don't yeah, you put those cheap targets right in front of me.

00:10:59: You know

00:11:00: what someone words discussing

00:11:03: just

00:11:03: like them.

00:11:04: What

00:11:04: about yourself?

00:11:05: What about your self?

00:11:07: where is Yourself criticism bloody beer.

00:11:10: well I'm pretty

00:11:11: self as a target

00:11:12: Unfortunately

00:11:13: easy guys, you know

00:11:15: Right unfortunately and that's it.

00:11:17: That's the big problem that you Cannot.

00:11:20: i should probably send you with translation Some of my programs, even today the first hour I was really heavily criticizing what's happening in Russia.

00:11:31: And how we do and they raise hell for a whole bunch of Russian money sacks.

00:11:38: you know all those Russian oligarchs that are trying to behave as if there is no war?

00:11:43: Absolutely things that are unacceptable during the war!

00:11:50: Let me put it this way If you think that I'm raising hell toward those cheap targets, You should listen me talking about domestic problems.

00:11:59: And and i think it's important to bring these points up especially probably in another language... ...I would suggest but of course in Europe In our media These guys are under-criticized.

00:12:12: The Russian side is over-criticalized.

00:12:15: That's not

00:12:16: the one who started this language.

00:12:20: That's a very important point.

00:12:22: Read British newspapers, listen to European political leaders' words that they are using to describe our president and soldiers, people in Russian culture.

00:12:40: Don't let yourself be provoked by people you don't deem your equal.

00:12:46: Why

00:12:46: do we need the mistakes of other guys?

00:12:47: We've discussed it during our first conversation, that's only a way to make you hear not you personally!

00:12:55: That is the only way unfortunately... Okay.

00:12:59: ...that' s the biggest problem.

00:13:02: this world reacts on provocation.

00:13:07: That's ugly, but that is the way it is.

00:13:09: No!

00:13:10: And thanks to me Europe now listening and countering your preconceptions about Europe.

00:13:19: you got a huge number of fans in Europe which means not everybody hates Russians even though...

00:13:28: In my case not everyone hates Russians or Jews Because I happen to be...I'm not Israeli.

00:13:37: I am Russian, but I am Jew.

00:13:39: Yeah right

00:13:43: because sometimes in Russia it's important to make this difference.

00:13:48: Sometimes people have a tendency that all Jews are Israelis and all Israelis are Jews.

00:13:55: That is not the case as you know.

00:13:57: And it's very interesting that you're bringing up, because he reminds me of another great scene in a movie which is the movie Bananas by Woody Allen where he tells a joke at beginning of UN General Assembly and he tell this joke to break his eyes.

00:14:14: he's in new york, runs into a subway and sees the black guy reading a jewish newspaper.

00:14:23: The american guy says well chu alone is not enough.

00:14:31: but let me say an important point your description of course doomed to conflict, to be engulfed by our own catastrophes man-made.

00:14:44: But at the end of day isn't it a miracle that humanity has survived?

00:14:50: And this is for me proof of God because if you would leave human beings on their own they will have killed themselves long ago!

00:15:00: So, I see the positives.

00:15:02: I always see the silver lining and i think one should overcome this rhetoric of total confrontation.

00:15:10: This is propaganda rhetoric!

00:15:12: They do it on our side...

00:15:14: Once again why are you using these words propaganda?

00:15:18: Every time when im trying to be reasonable Im asking very easy question How come that in western press Russia is portrayed as weak, whose army cannot overcome Ukrainian Army and that we've been freezed on the front line like at the First World War.

00:15:44: And we have enormous losses of human power... ...and our economy is almost ruined!

00:15:51: At the same time it will definitely in a couple months have to conquer all Europe and destroy the whole Europe.

00:16:00: And we'll start fighting NATO, and NATO in such a weak situation... In same hand of the same people.

00:16:08: it's either or.

00:16:10: What is any reasonable explanation for Russia To start war with NATO?

00:16:20: Is there anyone who can give me even one easy answer Or complicated but at least an answer?

00:16:28: When every single day you want us to be friendly, but when suddenly the guy who runs Luftwaffe is stating that even this night he's ready to bombard Kaliningrad Black Sea Baltic sea.

00:16:47: Are You nuts?

00:16:49: The Guy Who Is Running Luftwaffa!

00:16:53: The Göring of Modern Times?

00:16:56: He's Saying To Russians That we're ready to start bombarding your cities!

00:17:03: What kind of reaction he's expecting from us?

00:17:08: You'll give me an answer immediately after the break.

00:17:12: Roger Koppel is with us, brave Swiss patriot.

00:17:19: So where are we?

00:17:22: so what's the answer?

00:17:25: The answer to your points you made.

00:17:28: first and on this I'm sure The Ukraine war, this is the premise.

00:17:41: I say probably primarily... ...the mistake of the West.

00:17:46: You get almost crucified in public if you say that but i'm afraid to say This point has to be made.

00:17:56: There were huge mistakes made after the collapse of the Soviet Union which all led to this war.

00:18:04: And now we're in a situation where the people, you know until the Biden administration they were not willing to accept this.

00:18:14: You know?

00:18:14: They were like trying to find these bogie men and saying no only Russians are to blame but evil guys etc... That's propaganda.

00:18:25: If you are in war, that is the game of propaganda.

00:18:28: You have it on the Russian side as well.

00:18:30: when I listen to former president Medvedev When i listened to him sometimes... ...you're just overdoing and focusing too much But this is a law of propaganda Of course.

00:18:44: now they all are trapped.

00:18:47: They're prisoners of their own narratives.

00:18:50: And, in that sense they start to demonize as much as they can Russia... ...in order to justify the political direction in a situation where millions of people in Europe start to disagree!

00:19:07: So you have to take into account these leaders who are always shooting at them under extreme pressure And there you have to have a certain understanding.

00:19:17: Now, why I am still optimistic and disagree with your very gloomy outlook?

00:19:25: What we see now?

00:19:26: but curious what is your take... ...I think that's an interesting development.

00:19:32: on the battlefield We see big powers like the United States in Iran.. ..and Russia in Ukraine There are war machines Do not succeed in a way as their leaders want them to succeed and your program is proof of it because you told me that You are criticizing the Kremlin every day.

00:19:56: You're criticizing your president, Because he's doing enough to win this situation.

00:20:00: So we see now, it's similar as in the Middle Ages when the drones of middle ages came up by the English against French armoured knights.

00:20:12: these riding tanks were stopped and they couldn't somehow find a solution.

00:20:22: War tiredness, which I think but probably am wrong.

00:20:26: Which is growing also in Russia and these forces everybody to the negotiating table.

00:20:33: But what?

00:20:33: I think it's very important in this diplomatic rapprochement.

00:20:38: Is that on the western side?

00:20:40: And i think president trump sees it exactly even though he isn't american He's an inescapable American.

00:20:46: you cannot get out of his skin.

00:20:49: But the President of United States, I think he understands... ...the security concerns of Russia.

00:20:56: He very clearly understands what happened after the collapse of Soviet Union and this also leads on my side to a certain cautious optimism.

00:21:11: Well!

00:21:15: I don't want to be rude.

00:21:19: Please be rude, it's okay.

00:21:49: We had this type of wars after the collapse of Roman Empire, After the collapse United Kingdom Great Britain empire.

00:21:59: That happens all the time.

00:22:01: so that's why in order to prevent these kinds events it takes a lot effort and

00:22:11: we

00:22:11: did whatever we could Because with Ukrainians, why the same people have the same religion?

00:22:21: And West did whatever they could to push Ukraine toward this war by changing the code of nation.

00:22:29: Rewriting its history fighting the Prevaslavia, the Orthodox Church trying do what ever they can to separate.

00:22:38: because at least I'm the doctrine that has been announced by This American guy of Polish origin who hated Russia like gods.

00:22:48: And he stated that without Ukraine, a Russian will never be an

00:22:55: empire.".

00:22:56: By the way it's completely wrong statement but that was the main way of thinking about American political system.

00:23:05: so they invested five billion dollars as been once mentioned by Victoria Nuland in order to create this tension between Ukraine and Russia.

00:23:19: And that's a tragedy, that's obvious.

00:23:22: I agree.

00:23:24: Along both of modern world... That is not the case.

00:23:30: Drone are just one method for war.

00:23:33: They're not important.

00:23:35: What much more important?

00:23:37: we getting back to times when there was no country But let say were not fighting Ukraine And we are not fighting the United States as such, because the United states have never declared war against us.

00:23:52: But... We're fighting Palantir!

00:23:57: So were fighting Karp and Mosk that they declare it but there's a fight against us.

00:24:03: They made this statement many times.

00:24:07: Were fighting this guy from Google who makes Hornet drone?

00:24:14: Were fighting German Companies that are saying, oh we're with Ukraine.

00:24:20: We will work on the rockage system where fighting Scandinavian companies they said Oh Will be manufacturing stuff?

00:24:26: That were gonna kill Russians and Their countries.

00:24:30: I'm not saying that all way in the war with Russia But their company's are stating that yes, we are fighting Russia.

00:24:38: so whom should we attack?

00:24:40: who should we be dealing to?

00:24:42: The difference between American, Israel Ukrainian from one side and Iran from the other side?

00:24:49: war.

00:24:50: And War on the territory of Ukraine against NATO that we are fighting is enormous.

00:24:57: Trump did whatever he could except boots-on-the ground and nuclear weapon But why was he fighting this war?

00:25:10: for whom?

00:25:11: For Israelis?

00:25:13: For Americans?

00:25:15: The oil price?

00:25:16: What's the reason for this war?

00:25:18: For not allowing Iran to have their own nuclear program, but they all right in world.

00:25:28: They had their own peace-nuclear program and religious statement from Ayatollah states that will never ever have a nuclear weapon.

00:25:41: So what is the reason of fight?

00:25:43: Religious country which stated that he now believes we cannot have nuclear weapon.

00:25:50: In our case, We are not willing to fight Ukraine!

00:25:56: We never wanted to find Ukraine... ...we just want it.

00:26:00: stop genocide humiliation and death of Russian people on the former territories of Soviet Union.

00:26:12: That one stated that we do NOT accept military coup in Kiev of two thousand fourteen.

00:26:19: And for eight years they fought almost on the road against Ukraine Nazis.

00:26:27: I know that you don't like this word, so let's put it politely of the followers of Nazi ideas ultra-right Nazi movement That still uses symbols of Nazi Germany.

00:26:43: We were never saying we want to conquer Ukraine.

00:26:47: Look at the Stambul treaty In Stambuol Treaty obvious that we are not willing to take Ukraine at all.

00:26:57: We were discussing only two territories, that we recognized the sovereign government as sovereign countries.

00:27:06: That was it who managed to change it Boris Johnson French guys and Israelis.

00:27:17: As stated by President Lukashenko Vatican and Israeli We've been never defeated on the outskirts of Kiev.

00:27:29: We withdraw our troops because Macron told us yes, they agree But please.

00:27:35: They cannot sign peace agreement with the gun by The head.

00:27:41: so can you please withdraw your troops and we did it?

00:27:45: I'm criticizing Putin Because I am much more

00:27:50: rough

00:27:51: in my attitude a much more hushed in My attitude.

00:27:55: i'm saying that if the war would need to let's fight It.

00:27:59: but putting He is much more democratic than I am and he is definitely You know Let me go this way.

00:28:11: He loves people much more then i do,he doesn't want war Through all his you now through the old years of his career His real Russian patriot.

00:28:24: But here's a person that always is trying to make peace.

00:28:29: That's why they were fighting Ukrainians.

00:28:34: We discussed it.

00:28:34: That's the only war in history of this world when the ratio of casualties is such that we cannot... There are no one to compare with, there was nothing to compare them with.

00:28:50: The amount of soldiers then being killed times higher than the number of civilians as Americans will call it collateral damage.

00:29:02: We do not call them collateral damage.

00:29:07: We feel sorry for every single human that has been killed.

00:29:11: Of course, when we are not talking about Nazis But civilians it's always a tragedy.

00:29:17: all is a tragedy and When we see reports coming from the West with yet another Journalist from CNN saying oh see That's how at night And you know Ukrainians?

00:29:39: shooting the rocket-stoward Russia.

00:29:42: And that's... The same crew?

00:29:45: That killed girls at Starabelsk.

00:29:48: and when we are telling CNN, please send your reporters to star abelsk so you can witness by your own eyes the response is no I'm sorry We're on vacation!

00:30:00: We cannot do this.

00:30:00: Sorry No,no,we are on vacation.

00:30:05: Completely different wars.

00:30:07: We were fighting for people protecting people, people that want us to come and help them.

00:30:15: No one in Iran was asking Americans to come And those who asked them too they haven't received helped.

00:30:24: if there were any I don't know.

00:30:27: maybe the were a few but definitely not majority.

00:30:31: By the way In the West have you ever mentioned about People's vote in Donbass?

00:30:37: in Crimea That people decided their faith almost unanimously, eighty plus percent voted for the independence and then for reunification with Russia.

00:30:53: That's why when Angela Merkel was stating that we could not accept Crimea completely wrong, Crimea is much closer to the reunification of German people than of Anschluss or anything else.

00:31:12: It's a completely different story.

00:31:15: Let me offer My way of looking at it.

00:31:19: sure

00:31:20: you started off with mentioning the word propaganda.

00:31:23: What do I mean by propaganda?

00:31:25: Um, I means just an observation.

00:31:28: in every war The warring parties Inevitably they are in propaganda there Of course in a fighting mode and this is the situation of that of the fighters.

00:31:40: And i'm swiss i am neutral guy You know i'm standing outside of these.

00:31:46: And I even criticized my own country in Switzerland, as far as certain interpretation of neutrality is concerned.

00:31:54: But we Swiss are not in the position to judge any of the warring parties and say you know your like totally overdoing it into lecturing Zelensky or to lecturing your president?

00:32:09: The question who is the bad guy and he was the good guy?

00:32:12: I mean you can fight for that.

00:32:14: i try to look at At the interest of countries And what you are describing with brzezinski, and the origins Of the ukraine war in In the consequence of the collapse of the soviet union i totally agree With that and the united states where in that situation The winners of the cold war and you know the winners It's like after the First World War, it went to their heads.

00:32:41: They started to behave in a way which was felt in Russia and was a violation of national security interests but also humiliation But being so full of themselves at the end of history.

00:32:54: And now we made everybody turning into little American or European.

00:32:59: they start to be insensitive.

00:33:01: They didn't even think about that.

00:33:03: anyone could feel offended.

00:33:05: What is the problem with Russia?

00:33:07: Why do they have a problem with NATO expansion?

00:33:09: I mean, we are their friends.

00:33:10: We're just.

00:33:11: you know that it's not against them and this is exactly the danger You were also trapped in.

00:33:18: when you start to see the other side only through your own eyes And this is the mistake The West did and This Is the Mistake you Do In Your Programs That You Look Very Convincingly From A Russian Perspective on these western idiots and evil guys.

00:33:35: And so I have a different perspective, I

00:33:38: say... Yeah but just little remark.

00:33:40: But never people only political

00:33:42: leaders?

00:33:43: No no!

00:33:44: That's important.

00:33:45: with all respect to the

00:33:46: people not

00:33:48: the

00:33:48: leaders You're criticizing the people that are absolutely true.

00:33:53: in our conversations you differentiate.

00:33:56: Well what is this situation?

00:33:58: let me bring just brief summary.

00:34:00: In nineteen forty five, Soviet Union United States and England were sitting at the tables dividing up.

00:34:07: The world between them.

00:34:09: this new World Order lasted till nineteen ninety one than that collapse of the soviet union.

00:34:16: And we had like the hegemo hegemony or the unilateral dominant dominance of the united states of america political strategy, the Brzezinski doctrine was of course a result that we won the Cold War and now want to make sure nobody else can somehow challenge this situation.

00:34:37: China was lying on the ground, Russia was trying to find its way again.

00:34:43: To come up with feet after the terrible nineties these terrible years which were not really seen in the West I mean they have forgotten about it and didn't see the achievement of your president Putin In bringing russia back on track And holding the country together Which my view i was there quite several times Was somehow falling apart?

00:35:05: Now what happened?

00:35:07: Russia and China got very strong, Russia also much stronger.

00:35:12: And the United States got relatively weaker!

00:35:15: So this unilateral dominance is gone... ...and now we are in a multi-polar world which is emerging.

00:35:22: Of course Russian said that they've had it.

00:35:24: Come on….

00:35:25: Are you crazy?

00:35:26: Should we wait until they put their nuclear weapons onto Red

00:35:30: Square?!

00:35:31: What were they doing?

00:35:33: You're right.

00:35:34: for Russians In the Russian perspective, it was an existential threat if all these former Warsaw Bloc countries are running into Western alliance.

00:35:45: But now there is a black spot in your view!

00:35:48: and we discussed it in our first conversation.

00:35:51: You have to accept that, especially countries like the Baltics but also Ukraine or another country of Eastern European sphere.

00:36:00: they are still traumatized by Soviet rule!

00:36:03: They had a different perspective than you did on Stalin's Gulag and all this stuff And Americans were saying now Russians are weak.

00:36:13: please help us.

00:36:14: We want your umbrella But we

00:36:16: understand

00:36:17: this completely.

00:36:21: The time is right because no big power at the moment can win the war decisively.

00:36:29: Americans cannot win decisively, Russians cannot win decisively... Now it's a time to discuss and bury these bogie-men and try to look through the eyes of the other guys.

00:36:43: This

00:36:44: why I am in your program

00:36:46: talking

00:36:46: against an iron

00:36:48: wall!

00:36:48: Of course Roger but that way you're so naive.

00:36:53: There's

00:36:55: a beauty

00:36:57: of your naivety and I'll explain why.

00:37:03: We're not the one that will... Now you are

00:37:06: falling under your discussion level!

00:37:11: First of all, yes – the tragedy of Baltic states.

00:37:15: Of course this is the tragedy in Baltic States.

00:37:18: What tragedy of what?

00:37:20: How many

00:37:21: people in the Soviet Union are

00:37:23: just bored and, you

00:37:26: know...

00:37:29: We'll

00:37:29: get into it.

00:37:32: First of all It's the same as with Holocaust.

00:37:36: That is obviously against Jews No doubt But its not the same.

00:37:40: at least

00:37:41: on this we can agree.

00:37:43: Of course With Golodomor Because as we discussed that's an awful enormous tragedy, but not just of Ukraine and Ukrainian people.

00:37:53: It was through all over the former Soviet Union – Kazakhstan, Russia… And it happened!

00:38:00: The same with Gulag... ...it wasn't only against people from Baltic states.

00:38:06: that were all over Russia

00:38:09: Of

00:38:10: course With Baltic States when I'm asking this question what Baltic state?

00:38:15: He asked me to get deep into history.

00:38:18: So, that's why let me just put it as a little.

00:38:21: Those who are interested in the history of Baltic states please do pay attention to when they became independent how they become independent back in nineteen seventeen.

00:38:34: then Why Russian troops before the Second World War?

00:38:39: As we say liberated them from Hunters Who asked russian troops To come.

00:38:46: then.

00:38:47: please check during Soviet times what were nationalities of people that run those countries, and how changed the population of these countries.

00:39:01: The GDP in those places... And many representatives from all those countries at the same republics worked on a very high rank of soviet power.

00:39:15: And what was the income and how much money center spent on those regions?

00:39:47: Those countries?

00:39:47: they had their own armies when we're talking Eastern European countries.

00:39:52: They have the wrong secret service There were run by representative of their own people, but even had the wrong elections and That's why even now in Germany you can still see GDR Every time they vote.

00:40:12: So maybe it's not that black-and-white Maybe its not that easy.

00:40:19: Well, how many people in the West speak Russian language?

00:40:24: Of those who not emigrated from former Soviet Union.

00:40:28: And how many of them speaks European languages?

00:40:34: We know you much better than

00:40:36: us!

00:40:39: You're absolutely true and it's interesting even amusing If you are trying to explain that one should not look at everything black and white.

00:40:51: I have

00:40:52: the impression, somehow the master Michelangelo of painting this chiaroscuro style!

00:41:00: But again... May i ask your question?

00:41:03: Yes go ahead!

00:41:06: Discipline!

00:41:08: You Swiss

00:41:09: people do NOT know what discipline is!

00:41:12: From my view of Russia, and this amazing cultural huge body.

00:41:20: And inspiration universe

00:41:23: right

00:41:24: somehow in these huge galaxy there must come up the thought or question well why is it so that not everybody in Eastern Europe loves Russia as much as Vladimir Solovyov.

00:41:41: And probably this is just not the evil doing of some Dr.

00:41:47: Mabuse in The European Union,

00:41:49: it's a neocon

00:41:51: strategist but because also your country and its absolutely no black-and-white

00:41:57: that there were crimes...

00:41:59: This I say my point.

00:42:01: why i'm referring to history?

00:42:03: Because you can use history use it as oil to put in the fire, but you can also create an understanding and see that

00:42:13: nobody

00:42:14: is black

00:42:15: or white.

00:42:15: Let's

00:42:16: sit together at a table... I agree!

00:42:20: But of course we have

00:42:22: to find peace and Russia This was our

00:42:27: president told us We are always open for negotiation.

00:42:32: But I want to convince you that he's right on that because, say... You're criticising him all the time.

00:42:37: And in our last programme, Vladimir, In your last programme you said Russia is Europe and this is great!

00:42:45: This is a silver lining.

00:42:47: That means..

00:42:48: Russia is

00:42:51: EUROPE!

00:42:51: You cannot just throw bombs at europe.

00:42:53: Of course we can!

00:42:54: Russia

00:42:54: IS EUROBE!

00:42:56: You are not.

00:42:57: Well, Switzerland but Russia is Europe.

00:43:00: European Union is not.

00:43:02: They just don't somehow took the name.

00:43:05: But cultural wise religion-wise what we're getting back to the circle will discuss it.

00:43:09: that one man We don't want to conquer Europe.

00:43:15: That's not us who are stating that Russia has to be defeated.

00:43:20: this strategic defeat of Russia?

00:43:22: That's what european politically as I saying we never ever mentioned strategic defeat of Europe.

00:43:45: I

00:43:48: mentioned this the last time.

00:43:50: He said before the Super Bowl final, that he had great respect for the Russian president which somehow caused some uproar in a conservative circle.

00:43:59: Definitely is extremely interesting for the interview.

00:44:06: Sorry?

00:44:07: I do like Trump but i don't always estimate him.

00:44:10: He's not pro-Russian, he's pro American and thats enough.

00:44:14: That's true!

00:44:15: Roger next

00:44:16: week...

00:44:18: We'll continue next week.

00:44:20: Discipline, yeah?

00:44:21: We Russians we have to teach you Swiss discipline!

00:44:25: But I see your getting slowly on.

00:44:28: my point of view is a great success of

00:44:30: conviction

00:44:31: for Switzerland.

00:44:32: Of course!

00:44:34: West against east one-point zero...I'm leading.

00:44:40: Well let me

00:44:41: go this way.

00:44:43: He's hanging in the ropes.

00:44:43: You see, west against east.

00:44:45: so once again you are dividing Europe.

00:44:47: So now we're not Europeans.

00:44:49: and for your via West Yes yes!

00:44:53: Now again We are enemies.

00:44:55: No I'm the bridge builder,

00:44:56: I am the bridge builders that

00:44:58: will come to congruiosities.

00:44:59: Take your women And eat your food.

00:45:06: I

00:45:07: risk my whole existence and family at my company only by talking to you

00:45:13: devil

00:45:13: incarnated

00:45:15: in front of the camera.

00:45:16: That's very true, but we can always hand you some with Duke in Siberia!

00:45:22: We could

00:45:23: drink a fine burgundy wine when both are in the camps in Siberi.

00:45:27: But for this purpose we have to conquer Burgundy next week will continue.