«Selenskyj ist ein Verräter»: Julija Mendel und Roger Köppel über Propaganda aus Kiew, Zensur in Brüssel und Frieden

00:00:00: He's so much afraid of Ukrainians speaking about peace that he went in direct confrontation trying to ban our event,

00:00:10: actually.

00:00:11: Truth is the first victim and propaganda rules on all sides And nobody has

00:00:19: a monopoly

00:00:19: over truth.

00:00:21: I need Goebbels' propaganda if you want!

00:00:23: I need thousands talking heads... ...I need people talking positive things about me.

00:00:29: We were out shocked.

00:00:30: Ukraine today is a chaos where people try to survive from Russian missiles and drones, And from Zelensky's autocracy.

00:00:38: Ukrainian People are fighting Russia AND Zelenskys' Autocracy.

00:00:43: How long can we endure?

00:00:45: if people make conclusions before they see the facts?

00:00:48: This means that They don't care

00:00:49: about The Facts.

00:00:58: Hello!

00:01:00: Today Is Thursday, Seventeenth of September.

00:01:05: It´s the first plenary session in the European Parliament after the summer break.

00:01:12: And I find myself, in a hotel In the center of Strasbourg instead of the parliament... ...I found myself here with two distinguished guests.

00:01:25: To my left i welcome Julia Mendel.

00:01:29: Julia Mendl former press secretary of Ukrainian president Zelensky and today The Voice of a new Ukraine, a Ukraine searching for peace.

00:01:47: Searching to establish diplomacy instead of escalation as a new strategy regarding the war.

00:01:57: To my right I welcome Roger Köppel.

00:02:01: You call yourself Roger or Rojie?

00:02:05: Whatever you like

00:02:07: Roger Köpel Outstanding journalist and the editor-in-chief of The Journal Weltwoche.

00:02:18: Roger is considered to be the most independent journalist in German speaking media landscape, And I'm happy to have two of you here To speak about this situation In Ukraine regarding war and perspectives How to find a solution to tragedy which is taking place in your country.

00:02:45: Thank you!

00:02:47: We were actually supposed to hold this meeting in the parliament, we had booked a studio and yesterday when Julia Mendel was supposed to deliver a speech in the meeting hall of my political group she was denied access.

00:03:12: For me, this was the first time such a thing happened.

00:03:14: I've never heard that at parliament a person was denied access for obvious political reasons.

00:03:22: have you had any Such situation before?

00:03:25: Absolutely not.

00:03:26: but just days Before the speech when we had already announcement out President Zelensky himself signed sanctions against Me and i guess there is direct connection between those sanctions and cancellation of my entrance to the European Parliament.

00:03:47: Because from what I understand, what was written in Ukrainian media is that Zelensky personally asked Mrs.

00:03:55: von der Leyen and Mrs.

00:03:57: Metzola to ban my speech, to cancel

00:04:00: it.".

00:04:01: He's so much afraid of Ukrainians speaking about peace that he went in direct confrontation trying to ban our event.

00:04:12: actually

00:04:14: indeed It was the president Of The European Parliament herself Roberta Metzolo who took the decision To deny access to you and her head of cabinet, he came into my office in the afternoon to explain me why this decision was taken.

00:04:36: He said that Metzola received information at the event who will spread Russian propaganda and disinformation, which is forbidden in the parliament.

00:05:03: So I asked him where did that information come from?

00:05:08: Maybe President Metzola herself had received misinformation regarding this person so he was not really able or willing to disclose the sources.

00:05:21: they did it a very clever way.

00:05:24: you were denied access on grounds exclusively related to the parliament.

00:05:33: But it's obvious for us that there must be a connection between the sanctions put on you on Sunday and the denial of access to the Parliament, Wednesday.

00:05:47: What is the logic behind this?

00:05:51: professional media makers work to hide the true mechanisms behind such mechanisms which lead to results that we had yesterday in parliament.

00:06:06: Nothing new under the sun, I mean when a society is in war or believes itself be in war and if some politicians think they are in a war as well known Truth is the first victim and propaganda

00:06:25: rules

00:06:26: on all sides.

00:06:27: And nobody has the monopoly of truth, therefore it would be in a democratic society totally normal that you listen to all the sides.

00:06:38: You listen to other relevant interesting voices such as the voice of Julia Mendel Of course Absolutely so.

00:06:46: but you see by this pathetic decision That's You know, even an institution like the European Parliament is not upholding some basic values which would be supremely important in this situation we're in because where are dealing with huge decisions.

00:07:06: What's your attitude towards war?

00:07:08: what was right path to follow?

00:07:10: so you need listen a lot of people but these guys who decide something like that say they cannot enter parliament and she isn't allowed speak.

00:07:21: These guys are so deeply already in the propaganda war that they start to believe, like there is a holy grail of truth which isn't true.

00:07:34: I mean it's totally undemocratic.

00:07:36: what happened?

00:07:36: The good thing however... It cannot be stopped.

00:07:41: I mean, it was an embarrassment.

00:07:42: they tried to derail it but that didn't succeed!

00:07:48: With your persistence Professor Neuhoff you managed to circumvent these attempts.

00:07:56: the speech took place...it was a video transmitted real-life Zoom Speech.

00:08:02: The questions were there so it could not been banned.

00:08:05: Personally i thought It is actually a sign of the miserable state of the European Union.

00:08:14: I mean, if you have to use methods like this... ...you try to block someone who speaks with an irrelevant voice and also tries to forbid simultaneous translation!

00:08:27: So all translators are not allowed to work.

00:08:31: Imagine on what kind of low level our so-called European shivertike mineshaft, you know that.

00:08:39: the community of values.

00:08:41: I mean what pathetic value are those?

00:08:43: But they didn't succeed and this is the silver lining today.

00:08:48: after

00:08:48: if i may add They also there were just facts for the audience here.

00:08:53: We tried to talk to them.

00:08:55: They denied even the talk.

00:08:56: They didn't want to see me.

00:08:58: Well If they wanted to see if this is Russian propaganda they could say the speech before right.

00:09:04: They didn't want to read it.

00:09:06: It's a very superficial and very insulting decision, And for your audience to know.

00:09:11: we even didn't know till the end if video transmission will be working.

00:09:16: We recorded this speech So I'm grateful that you found so many ways To make it happen.

00:09:22: The questions were more critical than my answers But that is really very insulting and embarrassing.

00:09:30: Yeah, yeah.

00:09:31: I apologize for that and surely there will be consequences to this And maybe we can address one of the consequence later on when you come your next interview with Tucker Carlson Next week.

00:09:47: but first off all let me take up here.

00:09:50: You're saying that truth is the first victim of war If I remember properly, Julia in your interview with Tucker Carlson.

00:10:01: You said you related that also regarding the image of Vladimir Zelensky.

00:10:10: some sort of manufacturing Zelenski took place.

00:10:13: creating a certain image of Zelenskij actually will be part In that context.

00:10:21: you quote Zelensky, as follows I need Goebbels propaganda.

00:10:26: I need thousands of talking heads of Goebbles propaganda.

00:10:31: Can you describe a bit more in detail how this whole system was set up by Zelenski to make him That hero!

00:10:41: That myth which is today present on the head so many millions of Europeans and according is a myth.

00:10:52: Well, you're right that I was the part of.

00:11:16: He was very angry about critical comments on the social media.

00:11:38: Later on, in twenty-twenty Mr.

00:11:41: Yermak bought even more bots.

00:11:44: that was another person delivering bots.

00:11:46: so this is how they were trying to create a positive image.

00:11:51: I myself personally never was involved and we were standing against these practices because bots are the system.

00:11:57: when you also get... You lie yourself right?

00:12:03: Do you think someone supports your decisions?

00:12:06: but infact it's just bots?

00:12:08: So, when Zelensky was gathering us he was so angry that... He was trying to convince us.

00:12:16: That he needed a lot of positive information about his policies and one my colleagues were saying we just don't have the good results.

00:12:25: We are happy to make these stories but they're not there.

00:12:29: One story is that he promised in apartments for displaced people But he is a pure guy.

00:12:36: He just promises and they need to appear as a miracle, never gives orders.

00:12:40: no one's responsible like it appears somewhere.

00:12:44: so everyone thinks that someone else doing this.

00:12:48: And time was passing.

00:12:49: we had more people who promised apartments.

00:12:53: nobody getting those apartments.

00:12:54: They were displaced.

00:12:56: People used to be prisoners of war in Russia and returned to Ukraine.

00:13:02: We had a person in communications team trying to find those apartments, which is ridiculous.

00:13:09: And the woman said look we need the results.

00:13:12: actually at least help us like give their order to government.

00:13:16: you know and will produce these stories that are not there because they have no where to live.

00:13:27: And so he tried to say that it doesn't matter what actually happens, because what matters is... What people say.

00:13:36: What experts say?

00:13:37: What boards say?

00:13:38: you know.. What information is spread online?

00:13:43: and when My colleague was insisting that the reality need to correspond what he said.

00:13:50: He became very angry, he leaned on a table like always doing his anger and I needed Goebbels propaganda if you want.

00:13:58: I need thousands talking heads!

00:14:00: I need people talking positive things about

00:14:03: me.".

00:14:04: We were out shocked when we went silent first office, like nobody knew how to respond.

00:14:13: Because for us it was also shocking to hear Goebbels propaganda.

00:14:17: think you know he repeated it several times more.

00:14:21: we had such gatherings.

00:14:23: there were people from his humor show Gratal-Ninety Five who tried even to count How much would cost together this gobble propaganda?

00:14:35: however I didn't have much time to think about that because we had so much work and i was trying.

00:14:42: just you know, went on.

00:14:57: Actually, it worked for him at another level because as far I understand there are lobbying NPR companies that are hired in Washington

00:15:07: D.C.,

00:15:09: London and perhaps Brussels but they're helping create the image to manufacture a story itself.

00:15:18: And I just want to pay your attention that Volodymyr Zelensky became known in the first days of large-scale invasion for supposedly he's saying, ''I need ammunition not a

00:15:29: ride.''.

00:15:30: But he never said it.

00:15:31: It was an American diplomat who leaked their information.

00:15:39: if he was that super brave in real life.

00:15:43: So my point is, you know when this war broke as many Ukrainians – the majority of Ukrainians I was grateful for his state and country And i was trying to be helpful.

00:15:55: There were unity.

00:15:56: We knew we stood against external aggression.

00:15:59: It helped me a lot not just because pain but also because I stood for my country And I believe that Volodymyr Zelensky, he abused our unity.

00:16:12: He abused our belief in Ukraine and he abused the trust in the state because Ukraine today is a chaos where people try to survive from Russian missiles and drones and from Zelenskys autocracy.

00:16:26: So if we talk about betrayal I accuse him of being a traitor to Ukraine.

00:16:33: He did exactly opposite what he promised, and elevated his own personal benefit above the nation's

00:16:42: interest.".

00:16:44: Could it be said that there was desire among Ukrainian people?

00:16:50: The person like Zelensky shows up... ...and will lead the country into new future?

00:16:57: In twenty-nineteen there were lots of hope!

00:17:00: What I never said?

00:17:02: that Zelensky is there, he's selling hope all the time.

00:17:06: He was saying... I will kneel and get in my knees in front of Putin just so Putin doesn't put Ukraine into its knees.

00:17:20: Nothing mattered more than human lives!

00:17:23: He was talking about important things people wanted to hear And he not only promised to finish this war, but also said that if he doesn't finish it He will give the position of a person who would be able to finish.

00:17:40: Everything is forgotten!

00:17:42: So nothing has changed for Ukrainian people because they want peace.

00:17:47: They want someone who could establish normalised relations and restore their country.

00:17:54: But Zelensky?

00:17:56: Zelenski's messaging, Zelenskis' ideology.

00:18:00: What he is doing has changed drastically.

00:18:05: Did Zelensky succeed to sell hope in the European countries?

00:18:11: And if so what were people actually looking for?

00:18:16: which was the main dimension to our happiness?

00:18:28: Well,

00:18:30: I mean...I look at it from a very practical side.

00:18:34: In the February of twenty-twenty two when i was in Switzerland or actually that time i wasn't Germany except on this on the very day Was Actually in a German television talk show exactly When when The Russians Invaded Ukraine, and it was clear.

00:18:55: I mean all of a sudden there's like an outburst of emotion in Europe The western part.

00:19:01: you saw these images Of course Putin he is not considered You know a light Figure-of-light in the Indian in the wider audience.

00:19:10: So if your skepticism about putting his Russia And isn't autocrat etc.

00:19:15: but then on that day All this perceptions they somehow exploded into this chain reaction of emotional outbursts and people were truly engaged.

00:19:37: They thought it was a huge scandal what Russia is doing.

00:19:40: And this emotion, of course... ...was very strong and I can totally accept that.

00:19:47: but when people you see smaller countries attacked by the bigger one nobody asks for other reasons or deeper reason.

00:19:55: It's your emotions You have no power to feel like we should help This emotional reaction.

00:20:03: The bad guy invades and the poor, they're attacked.

00:20:08: They are Robin Hoods!

00:20:10: And there's the resistance.

00:20:12: of course their leader he is shining hero, the shining knight.

00:20:17: I mean these were like from first day.

00:20:19: These were perceptions.

00:20:22: Then an interesting thing happened.

00:20:23: I waited to a moment till rationality would take over especially in political field with the parties, with leaders that someone should come and say well we have a catastrophe of an invasion.

00:20:42: We do not accept

00:20:43: it.".

00:20:43: Of course its clear Russia is the aggressor.

00:20:46: they went in even though there might be reasons why they did this

00:20:50: etc.,

00:20:51: its unacceptable.

00:20:52: but now what can we do as European countries?

00:20:58: What's our position to war?

00:21:01: Shouldn't we try to make this war smaller?

00:21:05: Shouldn't be trying to do everything, engage in diplomacy as during the Cold War when the shit hits the fan.

00:21:13: And it never happened.

00:21:14: at his first emotional reaction just prevailed.

00:21:18: there was no discussion that you know, calculation of the consequences of our policy.

00:21:25: Everybody who had another view said well we should probably negotiate he would...he was vilified and of course in the interest of Volodymyr Zelenskiy I mean is a smart man!

00:21:35: He's not stupid!

00:21:37: He knows that Ukraine it too small to win such war.

00:21:41: He cannot accept as president lose territory.

00:21:44: no president can accept losing territories impossible.

00:21:48: so he wants do everything to defend his position.

00:21:52: So it is interesting, he does present himself as this hero that the others make him also with their perceptions and then he tries to get everything he needs to fight this war.

00:22:09: And of course propaganda kicks in.

00:22:12: but what never happened?

00:22:13: I mean these are all explainable But an interesting phenomenon still today.

00:22:19: I mean, there is just one marching column in the media and politics into European mainstream that nobody questions.

00:22:26: Nobody gets on a rational level of discussion like you presented at your speech.

00:22:31: what are consequences?

00:22:35: Ukraine is on the verge of extinction.

00:22:37: We are losing so many people!

00:22:39: You get to a point, like in The Vietnam War where this famous American captain said at this battle of Huey in nineteen sixty-eight we have to destroy these cities in order to save it.

00:22:51: I mean that world might go down in flames but we will save them.

00:22:56: So thats for me the problem.

00:22:58: i don't see it.

00:22:59: and propaganda mechanisms.

00:23:03: For the last remark I would just say, and disappointed especially as a media guy of The Reaction for the Media that they play this game.

00:23:12: you know there is one shining hero on one villain.

00:23:15: It's like a Hollywood movie but it doesn't correspond to reality.

00:23:19: its more complex And its utterly irrational because at the moment we are in point where really have to see the danger Of huge escalation even over war on German soil again between Europe and Russia.

00:23:36: I mean, it's there!

00:23:37: We are as close never before since nineteen forty-five.

00:23:42: And what does it need?

00:23:43: Does some rockets in Berlin or Munich that the people start to realize... ...what their risks

00:23:51: are?!

00:23:51: So this is a bit of how i look at it.

00:23:55: Emotion beats rationality.

00:24:00: totally fail in questioning these narratives you have so eloquently presented.

00:24:06: There is a total global media crisis and I think this is the consequence of this media crisis, there are some things that i get from some journalists where I see the build, German media who knew me and who is spreading just propaganda now.

00:24:28: And he even started earning on drones working with drones – amazing!

00:24:33: After our speech he sent a message, recorded an audio… The first seconds he said how stupid... I was doing this thing.

00:24:42: Like, it's a journalist right?

00:24:45: What are you doing like... You didn't read my speech.

00:24:48: he just said that is stupid.

00:24:52: And if I may, just for your audience.

00:24:55: Just today I got a very interesting story from New York that our diplomats cannot find Ukrainians to make a group of support for Zelenskyi.

00:25:05: Everybody denies nobody wants to see him.

00:25:08: Nobody supports him.

00:25:10: If Ukrainians do not support him Why do you?

00:25:14: Let me add one thing... Just one very quick thing.

00:25:18: You said the thing about propaganda what you touched upon at the beginning, Russian propaganda.

00:25:25: She's not allowed to spread Russian propaganda.

00:25:29: I mean

00:25:30: again in a war situation every side brings propaganda.

00:25:34: nobody is sure where the absolute truth is.

00:25:37: and even if there is a propagandist from Russia Let him speak?

00:25:43: I mean, we... No.

00:25:45: I don't say that you are dead in a general mode.

00:25:49: during the Cold War You could read Prafda in Europe.

00:25:53: It was not forbidden and it wasn´t banned.

00:25:55: They even invited Russian talking heads from Soviet Union And they listened to them.

00:26:03: But this bogie man of Russian propaganda I see a lot Ukrainian propaganda or EU propaganda in the European newspapers.

00:26:13: So I think, I'm surrounded by propaganda on all sides.

00:26:16: so i have to let everybody speak.

00:26:19: and propaganda is just a war kind of a world where you're bringing propaganda.

00:26:25: that means I get the truth You don't Have The Truth.

00:26:28: We shouldn't go into this kind of stupidity To use these words.

00:26:34: There are different narratives.

00:26:36: Some are more closer to the facts, some a bit more separate from the fact.

00:26:41: let's hear them all and make our own

00:26:43: opinion.".

00:26:44: Oh that is true.

00:26:46: I would like come back after short while but first of all i'd like you came back your quote we have destroy this city to save it which strongly reminds me that I see at play in Ukraine.

00:27:01: Presently, we have to sacrifice Ukrainian people to save

00:27:05: them.".

00:27:06: To the best of my knowledge this upsets you very much, Julia!

00:27:11: Can you explain a bit more?

00:27:12: what do you see at Play presently in your country and Europe also supporting the continuation of this war destroying our own people?

00:27:25: Just recently i've got note from one famous editor who told me that just before the war, they were meeting one top European official.

00:27:34: And this official said their aim was to have a war as long it is possible to bleed out Russia and there I personally thought that that was indepictable for Ukrainian people.

00:27:49: So what i see today in the West are so many people think these wars are Hollywood movies that they cannot put themselves in the shoes of Ukrainians, but want Russia to burn more than they want to save Ukraine.

00:28:06: Ukraine is in a terrible state today.

00:28:09: We almost have no economy, our debt is rising all the time.

00:28:13: it's now over one hundred and ten percent of GDP.

00:28:17: we get more loans...we do not produce any added value.

00:28:21: people don't have economic opportunities inside their country except for going to drone production.

00:28:27: you cannot make the whole population making drones but also We have energy infrastructure destroyed.

00:28:34: The winter is coming, there will be no light or heating.

00:28:40: Government cannot help at all.

00:28:42: What the government says in front-line regions today?

00:28:46: Leave!

00:28:47: If people live for one hundred dollars per month – how can they leave?

00:28:51: Where do they live?

00:28:53: They've got some hut in the village of let's say Herzog region and they could survive with their garden.

00:29:00: How can they come, let's say to a big city where they will not just have any means to live?

00:29:06: Then we have... A lot of deaths around.

00:29:08: The stories are terrifying!

00:29:11: I cannot stop telling them.

00:29:13: We had so many families erased So many children who suffer or die….

00:29:20: I was mentioning one story that is terrible – a woman in the northern region of Sumi.

00:29:25: Her house was sheltered by Russia and she pulled out her husband And she didn't manage to pull out her daughters of seven and ten years old.

00:29:34: And there are multiple such

00:29:35: stories!

00:29:38: The reaction for these stories is just don't speak about them, conceal them... ...and cheer up for hitting Russia.

00:29:45: It's not fair.

00:29:46: I mean if Ukraine stopped the war restored we would be strong shield for Europe.

00:29:54: We could have normal army operating, we couldn't have no economy and democracy operating.

00:29:59: And it would be reformed... ...and we can strong.

00:30:03: right now.

00:30:04: this is the destruction of Ukraine!

00:30:06: If Ukraine falls your guys next.

00:30:09: This is reality that has been hidden because all facts show that Ukraine is failing.

00:30:17: You should expect more refugees.

00:30:20: Let me just say Ukraine lost Over half of its population in thirty-five years of independence, and most people we lost was after twenty-twenty two.

00:30:30: Right now there are little more than twenty million people in the country And twelve million of them are pensioners with disabilities.

00:30:39: So over a half We almost know about half working age.

00:30:43: We have men who don't go out their house for years years, because they are hunted on the streets and forced to go to the front line or pay all their savings as bribes.

00:30:58: Ukrainian people fight in Russia AND Zelensky's autocracy!

00:31:03: How long can we endure?

00:31:05: And why do you think that this inhumanity is normal?

00:31:08: It couldn't be normalized.

00:31:12: We all are humans and my call is remember that, imagine yourself on this place!

00:31:17: You would never agree for it, why do we have to do so?

00:31:25: Julian your speech yesterday.

00:31:26: you said NATO membership of Ukraine was intended to protect the Ukrainian people.

00:31:34: And now we're sacrificing the Ukrainian People to reach that membership, isn't that an absurdity?

00:31:44: I think it shows the NATO idea died in my country.

00:31:48: Not for my country but just dead!

00:31:51: It was really created as a umbrella of protection and security.

00:31:55: so how can we be dying from potential ideas?

00:31:59: maybe sometimes... In ten or twenty years to join this union doesn't make any sense.

00:32:09: Until twenty fourteen Ukraine was a neutral country.

00:32:13: Roger, you are the citizen of a neutral state since more than two hundred years... No!

00:32:21: Almost

00:32:22: two hundred.

00:32:24: Officially we could say in the sense of international law since eighteen-fifteen which is like more then two hundred year.

00:32:30: but I mean tradition of Swiss neutrality goes actually back to fifteen-fifteen after the Battle of Mauriniano, so we're talking about a very ancient thing here.

00:32:40: Yeah but La Suisse fared quite well with neutrality.

00:32:47: wouldn't it be model also for Ukraine to become The Swiss Of Eastern Europe bridge between the Western and Central European States And Russia on the other side?

00:33:04: couldn't be a bridge across the Knieper, would it be very simple of that balance between two huge regions?

00:33:18: That could work for.

00:33:20: You think this is reasonable idea to call for a new Vienna Congress?

00:33:33: Absolutely, and the tragedy is that this idea you expressed was also pointed out and explained back in twenty fourteen after the whole Crimea crisis by no less than Henry Kissinger.

00:33:52: He wrote I think at the Financial Times a comment on that.

00:33:56: he said Ukraine should be federal state with A lot of regional independence for the different regions, because they have been shaped by a very difficult history in the twentieth century.

00:34:12: So we have a lot of different mentalities political inclinations and loyalties.

00:34:17: How do you cope with that?

00:34:18: Switzerland could be role model for that.

00:34:21: We also have mix of different tribes, religions, languages.

00:34:28: Kissinger spelled it out and he also argued for neutrality.

00:34:33: And I think we can even go further in the twenty-twenty two, i can remember that Ukrainian president Zelensky himself on ex or Twitter probably was already ex at a time He presented the idea to be open to the idea thought would be good idea for neutral Ukraine.

00:34:54: And when you're talking about the bridge between, you could say Eastern Europe and Western Europe I consider Russia of course a European country, Ukraine is an European country.

00:35:04: of course then some western Europeans and some Americans should try to go into therapy for their prejudice vis-a-vis Russia than we are talking about Vienna Congress.

00:35:19: that means that we have a meeting of nations.

00:35:26: on the same level, which means I accept that there is a legitimate Russia.

00:35:31: There's a legitimate Ukraine and all participants.

00:35:35: but we are not at this stage.

00:35:38: We're in this horror movie version of reality where you see in Moscow... ...there is The Devil, there is this new Chinggis Khan This new Hitler And everybody who dares to negotiate with this devil or monster.

00:35:55: He's engaging in appeasement policies.

00:35:57: So we are at the moment, in danger of taking wrong lessons from history and I think that Vienna Congress is a much more inspirational way also closer to this situation today than these parallels to the last world war.

00:36:18: And just a very short remark on that, Kissinger wrote one of his major books about Vienna Congress and he said in such a congress you can deal with powers who don't want to rule the whole world like Napoleon or Hitler which these guys have to deal differently.

00:36:36: but I do not consider Russia as this threat to the universe.

00:36:42: we have to engage Vienna style, a dialogue and this would be my vision too.

00:36:50: I mean we need each other!

00:36:52: And Ukraine has so much to offer...I mean it's crazy that will letting these happen the destruction of your country on the altar some ideological

00:37:02: madness.".

00:37:04: For information for our audience in European Parliament indeed Putin is regularly addressed as new Hitler.

00:37:15: It's common to say that.

00:37:17: But let us come back the idea of neutrality.

00:37:21: until twenty-fourteen Ukraine was a neutral state, Julia do you see readiness among Ukrainian people today?

00:37:30: To return to those status and put it into the constitution as if at this time Ukraine be a neutral State?

00:37:41: Well, thank you for everything that both of your saying.

00:37:44: And I must remind you when Zelensky was elected in many ways he was promising people what Mr.

00:37:51: Koepler is saying right now and the thing as to approach inside a country not many know.

00:38:00: just before large scale invasion one most promising and successful reforms were decentralization And the European Union really was surprising us for this decentralization.

00:38:14: And Zelensky himself was standing for neutrality when he was elected with a majority of seventy-three percent.

00:38:24: So what is he doing now?

00:38:27: He's establishing The Vertical Of Power, no decentralization idea at all and it also matters how we see that country's diversity.

00:38:38: Because yesterday I was given an interview to a person from Donbas, she speaks Russian and spoke Ukrainian — it was wonderful interview!

00:38:46: Everybody would understand each other but Zelensky makes diversity.

00:38:51: as seen for the country though he is a russian speaker... He really tries to pretend that russian language is an evil.

00:39:01: And you know, I don't think that Russian language is somehow connected to Russia in today's modern society because then we all don't need to speak English.

00:39:11: Because sometimes there were also wars or we didn't have to speak German...I'm sorry!

00:39:17: ...because what was done in the twentieth century?

00:39:21: I mean…Russia cannot monopolize the language

00:39:25: right?!

00:39:26: So, with this thing also the politics of Zelensky is actually to exclude Ukraine from any dialogue.

00:39:34: And not to have its sovereignty and it's word on the table when our fate is being discussed.

00:39:41: You're here discussing a smart idea of neutrality that could bring Ukraine actually into peaceful solution, but Zelenskyy is excluding Ukraine – he is banning with his propaganda even thoughts about potential answers for peace!

00:39:58: And so people are filled with heavy propaganda.

00:40:01: But what I see is that there's the huge majority rising voices for finding solutions, There're ordinary people who started blogging volunteers Who say we need a realistic path to peace and neutrality Is one of features which should be in this plan because if you cannot get internet We shouldn't die for the very idea that it could or couldn't happen sometimes.

00:40:31: So yes, I mean... It depends!

00:40:33: The thoughts of people depend on propaganda but in my circle there are so many journalists and businessmen who say nobody wants to see us there what we're fighting?

00:40:46: So, I believe that Ukrainians would be ready for neutrality.

00:40:50: This wouldn't be a problem if it's not politicized heavily and is not presented as threat.

00:40:56: Let

00:40:57: us promote this idea together!

00:41:01: That's called for new Vienna Congress where all the relevant states are represented to find their path to that new status of your country.

00:41:12: That would be really a great project, I'm quite willing to promote it and actually did it in some of my speeches here at the parliament.

00:41:21: let's hold a new Vienna Congress please.

00:41:23: Well neutrality by the way.

00:41:25: when there was the negotiation in Istanbul in two thousand twenty-two our Swiss ambassador in istanbul Jean Daniel Ruch who is now writing for our newspaper He was at the time ambassador, Swiss Ambassador and he was contacted by Turkish authorities.

00:41:44: They were telling him that the Ukrainian side and Russian side they are very close to a compromise for peace in Ukraine – twenty-two.

00:41:54: And if there could be help from Switzerland explaining what neutrality actually means in practical terms And just probably to give you a hint on that, what you're talking about Swiss neutrality is very special.

00:42:10: It this... You could say eternal?

00:42:14: That means all pervading permanent, permanent neutrality not just from case-to-case, permanently.

00:42:20: secondly and this the most important thing for Ukraine it's armed.

00:42:25: Armed!

00:42:26: That means that you can defend your own country with a very strong army.

00:42:31: pay a lot of money for your defense.

00:42:34: You cannot be part any kind of alliance, forget NATO and the European Union.

00:42:39: you have to really self-reliant in terms which means that nobody could even think in his wildest dreams because your army is so strong.

00:42:51: The lesson now, because of the bravery of your people who get killed there that they see.

00:42:56: They cannot just march through.

00:42:57: and third thing is neutrality.

00:42:59: isn't this today unfortunately not a case anymore in Switzerland?

00:43:03: it also means don't participate into economic warfare no sanctions and don't engage in diplomatic warfare, so don't ban people from entering your country etc.

00:43:16: So that's the concept of Swiss neutrality.

00:43:18: it is very demanding because in a war situation everybody wants to have you on his side.

00:43:24: You need strong politicians or strong people who say no we do not take sides whether in peace?

00:43:31: No!

00:43:32: In peace We dont go into the holy alliance we stay outside.

00:43:36: And this is exactly the big failure in Europe because everybody says, This Is Our War In Ukraine and I think... Why are

00:43:45: they not fighting?

00:43:46: That's exactly the point!

00:43:48: They say that in Ukraine our values are defended.

00:43:53: so then put on your uniform, take you around and die yourself.

00:43:58: Don't let the Ukrainians die for your cynical fantasies

00:44:04: here.".

00:44:05: I think this is a cynicism that's not at all addressed properly in our public sphere – it actually is a disgrace!

00:44:14: This kind of rhetoric we hear every day….

00:44:18: Adding to this hypocrisy... we have in the sanctions, another package of sanctions.

00:44:24: I was calling for these sanctions and standing with them but right now they don't work!

00:44:30: And this is like a twenty-fourth package of sanction.

00:44:35: Again how PR is different from reality?

00:44:38: So yesterday went to one website so that new packages would include over one thousand names.

00:44:45: And at the same time, I know that there is a problem that European Union cannot prolong sanctions on one of Putin's pockets.

00:44:53: One Russian oligarchs!

00:44:55: So it's really very hypocritical if they try to present themselves as heroes saying we have twenty-four packages of sanctions but twenty four packages... means that they do not work, right?

00:45:07: Showing the number we have over thousands of people to sanction but at same time not sanctioned by the major oligarchs in Putin.

00:45:16: So what I mean is this strategy is failing And it is not failing because of the Ukrainian soldiers and Ukrainian people who showed enormous resistance.

00:45:24: It's failing, Because there are people here Who live just in their fantasies... ...and do not appreciate human life.

00:45:31: So my colleagues were all humans.

00:45:33: Please let me remember about that.

00:45:36: Let us remember!

00:45:36: The nation was almost dead.

00:45:39: You see?

00:45:40: I am here to beg for these people.

00:45:43: you don't know how much i get support then I really do.

00:45:47: I cannot openly still speak about the ways, but there is enormous support at least through someone talking about peace.

00:45:55: people want peace and that's it.

00:45:57: thank you for saying all of this and for explaining about the neutrality.

00:46:01: i think it will be very interesting for other people.

00:46:04: It´s very much underappreciated.

00:46:07: You asked a question why Europeans don't go and fight?

00:46:11: The answer from realism theory of international relations would be areas, of course strategic interests are areas where you're willing to go.

00:46:24: To fight and to die.

00:46:26: so the fact that Europeans are not an Americans as well I'm not willing too set boots on the ground in Ukraine is a clear proof an area of core strategic interest for them.

00:46:44: So this takes me to the hypothesis over proxy war, could it be that Ukraine is being used by other powers... ...to lead a proxy war?

00:46:58: To take off a strategic adversary-that's Russia from the table?-is that idea in some way around in Ukraine to understand what's happening?

00:47:11: Well,

00:47:11: many people mentioned this because it looks more and more like that.

00:47:16: And yesterday Ursula von der Leyen did her speech at the European Parliament.

00:47:22: I think we all need to see their perspective here.

00:47:25: She invited a Ukrainian girl dancer who lost her leg Because of Russian shelling To support his speeches as PR.

00:47:34: She used the girl for PR and many Ukrainians they said, why did she use it?

00:47:44: For promoting The Wall.

00:47:46: If she invited this girl for a PR... ...she needed to say we don't want more children with lost legs.

00:47:53: We appreciate that she is hero really but keeps dancing But we do not need children who have lost limbs because of The Wall!

00:48:00: Right?!

00:48:00: She wanted to say that And she said look at these girls – she has lost her legs.

00:48:05: Let's cheer up the wall.

00:48:06: Let's militarize this society again, let's give more weapons.

00:48:10: and I'm just explaining to people as consequence have more children with lost

00:48:14: legs.".

00:48:15: You see?

00:48:17: It is a matter of perspective!

00:48:18: I am looking at these girls thinking we need do everything in order not having more children like them.

00:48:23: She looks here.

00:48:24: she says hey lets fight more… With Ukrainian blood, with Ukrainian lost leg, with Ukraine lost hands.

00:48:31: This is so painful, this is so inhuman.

00:48:33: She's the mother of seven.

00:48:35: Cannot she imagine her own children like that?

00:48:39: Would she ever cheer up for the war if her children were in such

00:48:42: condition?".

00:48:45: Let us take another two subjects... One is the issue of corruption and Ukraine….

00:48:57: We don't

00:48:57: have enough time!

00:48:59: Just with a few short statements please And after that, we'll take a short look again at what happened yesterday in the parliament and then will close.

00:49:12: Julia just explain us basic mechanisms as to corruption concerning especially billions of euros going into Ukraine for purpose buying arms.

00:49:32: What happens to these billions of euros, actually?

00:49:35: So let me be frank here.

00:49:36: The Ukraine today in such a poor economic condition because of Zelensky's work and what the West is doing with us that we wouldn't able survive without aid.

00:49:48: but providing more military aid isn't going to defend our country.

00:49:56: And I was also cheering for military aid, and it helped us stand in twenty-twenty two.

00:50:03: And we needed back then to finish this wall.

00:50:05: but what i see now is that in Kiev Volodymyr Zelensky circle personally benefits much from your money?

00:50:13: It's not about defense of the country!

00:50:15: It's about attacking Russia.

00:50:17: so We have drawn companies that Zelenskiy promotes everywhere That he brings to their investors.

00:50:25: at the same time There is a ban for other drone companies to promote themselves, and we have anti-corruption wiretaps that Ukrainian journalists and members of parliament read publicly already.

00:50:46: Long-term partner and Zelensky's appointed minister of defense are discussing billions that go to the company behind which the partners stands.

00:50:56: And this showed, you know...and that partner said that economy don't matter anymore.

00:51:03: so they just turned economy into private benefit.

00:51:08: If to take all the articles and public tenders that are available online, we can see since late twenty-two at a company fire point that Zelensky promotes widely everywhere – widely!

00:51:23: The biggest promotion for this company got at least seven billion euro.

00:51:27: And behind these companies there were people very close to Zelensky, super-close to Zelansky.

00:51:33: So what he does?

00:51:34: every time he escalates the rhetoric and escalates his actions.

00:51:38: when Russia shells... He says we will protect ourselves!

00:51:41: We'll shell

00:51:42: back!".

00:51:43: So he shells with fire point — he promotes firepoint.

00:51:47: Military by the way told me that firepoint is not of high quality and it doesn't really shell well.

00:51:55: however I guess such a money can improve.

00:51:58: However, then Russia shells back.

00:52:00: Our civilians are not protected our skies and not closed.

00:52:04: Ninety three percent officially ninety-three percent of shelters Are not ready for full protectors.

00:52:10: How is that possible on the fifth year?

00:52:13: Of war?

00:52:14: I could understand first here.

00:52:15: i couldn't understand.

00:52:16: second year fifth year four.

00:52:17: it's absolutely insane.

00:52:19: And also if you look at Ukrainian pollings Not like quantitatively but qualitatively, you will see that despite the wall.

00:52:28: The number one problem for Ukrainians is corruption because corruption is absolutely everywhere.

00:52:35: I mentioned them and who are being hunted on their streets.

00:52:38: so to get away from forced mobilization people pay ten fifteen twenty sometimes thirty thousand dollars a year bro everything they have.

00:52:51: And my husband, who is the former acting minister of economy.

00:52:55: He counted that by only conservative counts.

00:52:59: The corruption in this only sphere reaches five billion dollars annually.

00:53:06: It's a enormous amount!

00:53:08: The country is droning in poverty Is droning...in hell?

00:53:12: ...is droning and shelling?

00:53:14: Corruption is blossoming.

00:53:17: Every government in the world is corrupt.

00:53:19: Every government in the world is corrupt, but there's a difference of their intention.

00:53:24: Some governments are trying to fight that corruption and some governments try to benefit from it.

00:53:30: I'm absolutely sure Zelenskyi's government is benefiting from this corruption.

00:53:38: To conclude, let's come back to what happened yesterday at the parliament.

00:53:42: Julia you were denied access to the Parliament on charges that you will spread Russian propaganda and disinformation.

00:53:52: This is what head of the cabinet of President Metsola told

00:53:57: me.

00:53:58: So

00:53:59: he couldn't present any proofs for that.

00:54:02: And so I told him sir i know a person Who's also being charged of spreading Russian propaganda and disinformation?

00:54:13: who is charged of being paid by Russia for doing this, who was called Radio Moscow in the parliament.

00:54:22: Who's called The Voice Of Putin In The Parliament And off that person.

00:54:26: I know very well That the press never got a single cent from russia Never any instruction from Russia, but it's a purely scientific mind and that person is myself.

00:54:41: So I told him the charges for Julia Mendel are very much the same.

00:54:48: they're raised against me in my case.

00:54:50: i know for

00:54:50: sure

00:54:51: That there will never be any proof of this.

00:54:55: so don't mind sir if I'm If I question The proofs that President Metzola claims to have.

00:55:03: This is for your information, how things work.

00:55:08: people work on second third and fourth hand knowledge and on headlines only And from that even the president of the European Parliament makes up her mind.

00:55:20: If you go deep into issues if you have first-hand knowledge You will come understand That much?

00:55:29: of all that which is being related or also regarding you, it's not true.

00:55:35: So I think the lessons we learned yesterday were quite telling and actually to be honest most what i told him did not impress them very much.

00:55:51: The legal steps will take complaints etc... They

00:55:55: had conclusion before they saw their facts.

00:55:59: Yeah, but I'll tell you what really made him a bit uncomfortable.

00:56:03: In the end i told him that Julia Mendel next week will have a follow-up interview with Tucker Carlson and then this scandal which took place yesterday at The European Parliament Will be an issue in That follow up interview And that this scandal will Be directly related to the name of Roberta Metzola.

00:56:25: He

00:56:26: showed signs of uneasiness when he heard that.

00:56:29: So we are back at the power of media and I would be really, appreciate a lot if The scandal which had yesterday At Parliament will be taken up by other media as well.

00:56:41: i'm sure you'll do it And let's hope that other strong media actors Will support us in same way.

00:56:50: I must add here that I saw a strong support from a lot of conservative bloggers yesterday on Twitter and i know the situation also reached The White House.

00:57:01: It's very insulting, if people make conclusions before they see facts this means they don't care about them.

00:57:09: Thank you very much Julia for sharing your insights with us in the audience.

00:57:18: there are many other issues we could have taken up But there are many other interviews with you also around.

00:57:25: I think that your very, very rich source of information, Julia for all those who are dissatisfied With the narrow-minded propaganda That's being shed on us every day here in the mainstream media.

00:57:41: Thank You Very Much and All The Best For Your Mission.